Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  salaries for founders?

    Posted 09-25-2017 09:34

    Greetings!

    When you teach business models/planning, do your students include salaries for themselves in their financial statements? And if so, what is a fair salary during the start-up and growth phases? I am aware of debates both ways,

    https://www.inc.com/alyson-shontell/how-much-do-startup-founders-pay-themselves.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-entrepreneurs-should-pay-themselves-1422244851

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngreathouse/2013/10/31/startup-founders-should-not-be-paid-more-than-this/#7b6cfad5242a

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/223744

    and I am curious what the ENT hive mind thinks.  

    Best Regards, Erik

     

     

    -----

    Erik Monsen, Ph.D.

    Associate Professor of Entrepreneurship & Mechanical Engineering

    Steven Grossman Endowed Chair in Entrepreneurship

    University of Vermont

    Grossman School of Business

    320 Kalkin Hall, 55 Colchester Avenue

    Burlington, VT 05405-0157

    Email: erik.monsen@uvm.edu

    Phone: 802 656 8994

    Mobile: 802 503 2600

    Web: http://www.uvm.edu/business/profiles/erik_monsen

    FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007943477948

    Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-monsen-9b41791/

     

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!


  • 2.  salaries for founders?

    Posted 09-25-2017 14:06

    It is indeed important that the founder entrepreneur indicates a salary for himself/herself. Profit is not the same as a salary and should not be treated as such. A salary also imposes financial discipline on the entrepreneur. The salary however cannot be fixed. It depends on the type of business and the cashflow of the company. Please speak to a Finance or Accounting lecturer in your school,  to provide a deeper explanation. Sometimes, even though the salary is indicated, the business might not earn enough for the founder to take it out. In that case, the company owes the founder, till such a time, when it can pay him/her. Hope this helps.

     

    Henrietta Onwuegbuzie, PhD, FIMC, CMC |Senior Lecturer, Entrepreneurship| Academic Director, Owner-Manager Programme | Lagos Business School | Pan-Atlantic University (formerly Pan-African University) | Km 22 Lekki-Epe Expressway, Ajah - Lagos | Tel: +234 802 501 4623/4 | Mobile: +234-8023272773| http://www.lbs.edu.ng/sites/faculty_research/onwuegbuzie_henrietta

    Watch videos   2013 , 2014 and   2015

    2017 -Opportunities in a recession

    http://aim2flourish.com/profile/HenriettaOnwuegbuzie1

    Lagos Business School is ranked with the world's top business schools in the area of open enrolment executive education. Financial Times, London, 2007-2017

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG] On Behalf Of Monsen, Erik
    Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:34 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG
    Subject: [ENTREP] salaries for founders?

     

    Greetings!

    When you teach business models/planning, do your students include salaries for themselves in their financial statements? And if so, what is a fair salary during the start-up and growth phases? I am aware of debates both ways,

    https://www.inc.com/alyson-shontell/how-much-do-startup-founders-pay-themselves.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-entrepreneurs-should-pay-themselves-1422244851

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngreathouse/2013/10/31/startup-founders-should-not-be-paid-more-than-this/#7b6cfad5242a

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/223744

    and I am curious what the ENT hive mind thinks.  

    Best Regards, Erik

     

     

    -----

    Erik Monsen, Ph.D.

    Associate Professor of Entrepreneurship & Mechanical Engineering

    Steven Grossman Endowed Chair in Entrepreneurship

    University of Vermont

    Grossman School of Business

    320 Kalkin Hall, 55 Colchester Avenue

    Burlington, VT 05405-0157

    Email: erik.monsen@uvm.edu

    Phone: 802 656 8994

    Mobile: 802 503 2600

    Web: http://www.uvm.edu/business/profiles/erik_monsen

    FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007943477948

    Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-monsen-9b41791/

     

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!


    "Note: All emails sent from Lagos Business School are subject to LBS's Email Terms & Conditions. Please click http://www.lbs.edu.ng/email-policy to read the policy."

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!


  • 3.  salaries for founders?

    Posted 09-25-2017 14:58

    Erik –

     

    Any discussion about 'fair' founder salaries requires some sense for the stage (startup vs. seed vs. growth) and market context. I've worked with a number of early seed-stage startups most of whom rarely ask how much they should pay themselves, focus more intently on validating the business model pay themselves, and in the end pay themselves what they can, when they can. That said, $50k is probably as good as any number for a funded early seed stage startup ... but once the enterprise shifts from startup 'mode' to high growth 'mode', (in my opinion) the $50k rule-of-thumb simply doesn't hold water. At some point during the growth phase, market rates apply. I'm working with founders of several funded high growth companies (companies that have raised $10+ million in growth equity with $10-15 million+ in revenues) who earn $250,000+ in salaries plus a significant cash bonus.

     

    I'm pleased to share a recent annual compensation survey of nineteen private-growth companies from the IT and healthcare sectors completed by River Cities Capital Fund, a growth equity firm based in Cincinnati with anyone interested. Unfortunately, the file size exceeds AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG size limitations for posts on the ENTREP listserv.

     

    To the question of whether of students should include salaries for themselves in their financial statements, at Miami, our startup track provides curricular and co-curricular programs for high growth startups (the 3x-3x-2x-2x growth profile institutional investors crave). Most (not all), high growth startups need angel or institutional funding, and whether investors place any value them or not, most, if not all, expect startups to provide 'complete' financial projections, more so to evaluate the assumptions founders have about the business opportunity and how they view the broader market itself. And that includes salaries. Consequently, we orient our student-founders to pro forma statements and venture funding expectations and expect them (1) to consider and/or plan for major cost categories-direct or indirect-in their financial models and (2) to understand how those forecasts affect valuation calculations and future capitalization tables.

     

    My $0.02.

     

    Tim

     

    Tim R. Holcomb Ph.D. 

    Associate Professor and Cintas Chair in Entrepreneurship |

    Institute for Entrepreneurship and Department of Management | Farmer School of Business | Miami University | 

    2075 FSB/MSC 1148 | 800 E. High Street | Oxford, Ohio 45056 | Mobile: +1.214.704.3568 | Office: +1.513.529.3665 | Fax: +1.513.529.6992 | Email: holcomtr@MiamiOH.edu |

    Farmer School of Business Website: http://www.fsb.miamioh.edu/directory/holcomtr  SSRN Author Page: http://ssrn.com/author=619640 |

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timrholcomb | Follow me on Twitter: @timrayholcomb |

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG] On Behalf Of Henrietta Onwuegbuzie
    Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:06 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] salaries for founders?

     

    It is indeed important that the founder entrepreneur indicates a salary for himself/herself. Profit is not the same as a salary and should not be treated as such. A salary also imposes financial discipline on the entrepreneur. The salary however cannot be fixed. It depends on the type of business and the cashflow of the company. Please speak to a Finance or Accounting lecturer in your school,  to provide a deeper explanation. Sometimes, even though the salary is indicated, the business might not earn enough for the founder to take it out. In that case, the company owes the founder, till such a time, when it can pay him/her. Hope this helps.

     

    Henrietta Onwuegbuzie, PhD, FIMC, CMC |Senior Lecturer, Entrepreneurship| Academic Director, Owner-Manager Programme | Lagos Business School | Pan-Atlantic University (formerly Pan-African University) | Km 22 Lekki-Epe Expressway, Ajah - Lagos | Tel: +234 802 501 4623/4 | Mobile: +234-8023272773| http://www.lbs.edu.ng/sites/faculty_research/onwuegbuzie_henrietta

    Watch videos  2013 , 2014 and  2015

    2017 -Opportunities in a recession

    http://aim2flourish.com/profile/HenriettaOnwuegbuzie1

    Lagos Business School is ranked with the world's top business schools in the area of open enrolment executive education. Financial Times, London, 2007-2017

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG] On Behalf Of Monsen, Erik
    Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:34 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG
    Subject: [ENTREP] salaries for founders?

     

    Greetings!

    When you teach business models/planning, do your students include salaries for themselves in their financial statements? And if so, what is a fair salary during the start-up and growth phases? I am aware of debates both ways,

    https://www.inc.com/alyson-shontell/how-much-do-startup-founders-pay-themselves.html

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-entrepreneurs-should-pay-themselves-1422244851

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngreathouse/2013/10/31/startup-founders-should-not-be-paid-more-than-this/#7b6cfad5242a

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/223744

    and I am curious what the ENT hive mind thinks.  

    Best Regards, Erik

     

     

    -----

    Erik Monsen, Ph.D.

    Associate Professor of Entrepreneurship & Mechanical Engineering

    Steven Grossman Endowed Chair in Entrepreneurship

    University of Vermont

    Grossman School of Business

    320 Kalkin Hall, 55 Colchester Avenue

    Burlington, VT 05405-0157

    Email: erik.monsen@uvm.edu

    Phone: 802 656 8994

    Mobile: 802 503 2600

    Web: http://www.uvm.edu/business/profiles/erik_monsen

    FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007943477948

    Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-monsen-9b41791/

     

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!

     

    "Note: All emails sent from Lagos Business School are subject to LBS's Email Terms & Conditions. Please click http://www.lbs.edu.ng/email-policy to read the policy."

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Jeff Pollack (jeff_pollack@ncsu.edu) or Kevin Cox (kcox24@my.fau.edu). Ventures HO!