Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 18:54
    Here are some things (unusual, I know) I use to promote taking risks behavior in class:
     
    1) There's a game I play since the first class which is: During each theoretical class, I include a small lie about a concept or fact. It is not clear the moment I do it, but at the end, they can try to confront me with the subject they believe I was wrong. This is, sometimes, very complicated, because they can mention things that I said right, which makes me an extra effort to defend it (you must have much confidence on your knowledge), but I never declare they are right or wrong with the assumption. Only on the beginning of next class I tell them what the lie was. With this, they develop a behavior of not trusting in everything the teacher say and I give prices (as grade points) to those who get the lie or even those who convince me there are additional ways to see the truth!!! The problem is that I am generating conflicts with other teachers as the students like to test this behavior in other disciplines!!
     
    2) During the exams, I develop difficult tests and insist the only way to get good grades is by cribbing somehow. So they are supposely free to try copying from the book or notes under my strong supervision. The risk is failing and getting a zero if I catch him/her. If somehow he/she did it successfully I will only notice it when I have the exam corrected. Being successful in doing that makes this student deserve a high grade for taking the risk!!!!
     
    Best regards
     
    Marcos

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Maciej Koczerga
    Enviada: ter 3/4/2007 05:26
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action" 

    Regards,
    Maciej
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 2.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 19:24
    I see risks under two points of view. The first one is a combination of uncertainty and complexity. Uncertainty is lack of information and the more uncertain is a situation the riskier it is. Complexity is the number of variables like time, people, sites, budget, knowledge required, etc. The more complex, the greater the chances of something go wrong, so it increases risk.
     
    The other point of view refers to threat classification under the combination between probability and impact. Probability is the chance of the threat to happen while impact is the potential loose if the threat happen. So if a threat with some probability to occur generate little impact, it is not necessarily risky. A threat with high impact but little probability to occur is neither risky.
     
    Entrepreneurs reduce risks by reducing uncertainty, complexity, probability or investment. A new business for example, could be implemented with an investment of US$ 1 million or may start small with US$ 10 thousand. It can start with a scope smaller than initially proposed so complexity can be reduced. More information may be searched or alternative action plans could be defined to minimize uncertainty. Technology, training, market analysis and other investments can reduce probability and so on.
     
    In my opinion entrepreneurs are more tolerant to take risks than regular people. Of course there are those who gamble but not necessarily are entrepreneurs, but in average, I see more people not risking their jobs for an adventure than entrepreneurs.
     
    Every year I make a survey in undergraduate and MBA classes. I ask how many of the students intend to become an entrepreneur within the next five years after completing the course. Undergrad responses use to be around 80%, while MBA students responses don't go over 30%. The 'excuses' of these students is that they 'have more to loose' (employment, family, image, life quality, etc).
     
    Any comments on it?
     
    Marcos Hashimoto
    Ibmec Sao Paulo
    Brazil
     

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Tom Bryant
    Enviada: ter 3/4/2007 01:02
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Dear Maciej:

    Smart (wealthy accumulating, serial, successful) entrepreneurs do NOT take risks, at least not ones they aren't prepared to handle.  Amateurs, first-timers, and ones who are unlikely to make a series of correct choices -- those are the folks taking risks -- and losing.  If we are doing things right in our courses, one of the signs should be that our graduates do not take those kinds of risks.  

    What we should be seeing among some of our graduates is successful entrepreneuring -- because we have shown them how to assess feasibility, discard low probability options, choose higher probability options, and manage the vagaries of the launch and growth processes.  Others should decide that they have yet to see the opportunity that motivates them enough.  

    If many students still want to be VCs, then perhaps that is because we have correctly shown them how hard its is to create successful new ventures -- without also showing them how much harder it is to thrive as a VC.  If they used to think that being an entrepreneur was the path to get rich quick, and now think that being a VC is a better path to the same fool's destination, their education is still incomplete.  

    Tom.



    Dr. Tom Bryant, Executive Director
    Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship
    Rohrer Professor of Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rohrer College of Business, Rowan University
    Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA
    (856) 256-4126;  e-mail:  bryant@rowan.edu



    On Apr 2, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Maciej Koczerga wrote:

    Hello everyone:
     
    Once I heard an opinion that after entrepreneurship courses majority of students are much more interested in becoming venture capitalists than entrepreneurs.
     
    My question then is: how do you train people to take entrepreneurial risks (NOT prepare business plans)? Do you really think that business plans, cases, simulations help with it?
     
    Regards,
    Maciej
     
    --------------------------
    Dr. Maciej Koczerga,
    Assistant Professor
    Department of Marketing Strategies
    The Poznan University of Economics
    Al. Niepodleglosci 10, 60-967 Poznan, Poland
    tel. 061 854 37 69, fax 061 854 37 77
     
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  • 3.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-06-2007 20:32
    Tom,
     
    I have thought a lot about it during this class model preparation and I am taking also the risk of breaking internal academic paradigms for new models of teaching entrepreneurship. Of course this is not a perfect model as we run the risk of passing wrong values to the students.
     
    Some developing economies like Brazil, have a large percentage of informal business and unfortunately most of them are force to break some gorvernment policies rules to succeed during their first critical years. In Brazil, 75% of business don't last 5 years. There's an extremely aggressive environment for entrepreneurship mostly caused by formal bureaucracy. It always seemed to me and to other brazilian entrepreneurship educators too hyprocrit to defend a model of building a business completely under formality while external reality is completely different.
     
    My opinion, in this particular case, is that we, as educators, must not encourage them to break all the rules but show at least how to feel the risks of taking such attitudes in terms of what are they aiming to pay for such behavior. One of the ways to teach it is by trying taking risks and assuming the consequences of it in a small, closed and controlled environment represented by school classes.
     
    Anyway, I would appreaciate not only your comments but also from colleagues who face similar situations in their country environments.
     
    Best regards
     
    Marcos Hashimoto

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Tom Bryant
    Enviada: qui 5/4/2007 02:50
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Marcos:

    I'm not inclined to follow your lead on encouraging illegal risk-taking.  That's the sort of thing that gives entrepreneurs terrible reputations as people who contradict well-established social standards, i.e., fully codified legal systems.  And it tends to land them in jail, broke.  To me, that is foolish risk-taking, and I would not encourage it in my school.  

    Better by far, I think, is the example of Ken Fowler, a Canadian multi-serial entrepreneur, who hires the best lawyers and accountants -- precisely because their expertise gives them good abilities to sense the emergence of new social sanctions, and hence to advise Dr. Fowler about what he should avoid.  

    I believe we should be teaching students how to sense different degrees of "the rules to keep and the rules to test" -- not how to break rules that will cause heavy sanctions, like expulsion from the university for cheating on exams.  To me, those are the kinds of foolish risks that smart entrepreneurs (and well-educated ENTR students) avoid taking.  

    Tom Bryant



    Dr. Tom Bryant, Executive Director
    Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship
    Rohrer Chair in Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rohrer College of Business, Rowan University
    Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA
    (856) 256-4126;  e-mail:  bryant@rowan.edu



    On Apr 3, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    Here are some things (unusual, I know) I use to promote taking risks behavior in class:
     
    1) There's a game I play since the first class which is: During each theoretical class, I include a small lie about a concept or fact. It is not clear the moment I do it, but at the end, they can try to confront me with the subject they believe I was wrong. This is, sometimes, very complicated, because they can mention things that I said right, which makes me an extra effort to defend it (you must have much confidence on your knowledge), but I never declare they are right or wrong with the assumption. Only on the beginning of next class I tell them what the lie was. With this, they develop a behavior of not trusting in everything the teacher say and I give prices (as grade points) to those who get the lie or even those who convince me there are additional ways to see the truth!!! The problem is that I am generating conflicts with other teachers as the students like to test this behavior in other disciplines!!
     
    2) During the exams, I develop difficult tests and insist the only way to get good grades is by cribbing somehow. So they are supposely free to try copying from the book or notes under my strong supervision. The risk is failing and getting a zero if I catch him/her. If somehow he/she did it successfully I will only notice it when I have the exam corrected. Being successful in doing that makes this student deserve a high grade for taking the risk!!!!
     
    Best regards
     
    Marcos

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Maciej Koczerga
    Enviada: ter 3/4/2007 05:26
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action" 

    Regards,
    Maciej
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 4.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-06-2007 21:03
    Let me share with you a small example of this.
     
    A few months ago I was helping my mother in making some cookies by using a distict exclusive recipe. The cookies are really delicious and everybody likes it a lot. During this meeting, influenced by the several positive reactions from some friends about these cookies, she mentioned the idea of launching a business with it.
     
    Trying to help her, I used all my knowledge to design a brief business evaluation analysis. So I started making questions about the number of employees required, the investments in equipments, the cost of raw material, the time required to make a certain amount of cookies, what would be the minimum price for each package, the points of sale that she could develop, how to promote the product and several other questions. As she was answering, I was converting all data into numbers and I came up, after a few conversation hours, with an amount of investment, cash flow projection and roughly payback of 3 to 4 years. In other words, some detailed analysis would be necessary but, in a first glance, it seemed not to be an interesting business.
     
    After saying that, with all the confidence of an entrepreneurship teacher and specialist, I saw the shine in her eyes suddenly disappear behind an unexpected frustration. I tried to recover her enthusiasm by saying it was just an overall analysis and no decision should be taken prior to some data confirmation but she just replied 'We'll, you are the specialist, if you say it doesn't worth, then there it is, let's just forget all this conversation, OK?'
     
    Since this episode I've been trying to recover the idea but unsuccessfully, the same time, I've been wondering about the role of entrepreneurship educators and consultants. Aren't we just giving students the rationale that just kill dreams? Can we just kill an idea by using rational arguments and forget skills, behavior, the power of enthusiasm and all the people personal power to convert bad ideas into successfull businesses?
     
    Aren't we part of the responsibles for turning the 80% into 30% with the pure business management knowledge? How can we, as educators, balance technical issues to behaviorial components in new businesses development?
     
    Regards
     
    Marcos Hashimoto

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Tom Bryant
    Enviada: qui 5/4/2007 03:19
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Marcos had a very interesting observation about relative perceptions 
    of risk between grad and undergrad students (excerpted below).

    Some members of this list may be familiar with Harvard's admonishment 
    of its MBAs that they should NOT launch new ventures for at least 
    five years after graduation -- notably ignored by many during the 
    dot.com boom.

    One of the commonly used marks of successful ENTR programs is 
    teaching students to NOT take the wrong risks.  That should translate 
    into "mature judgement" -- which means some would-be entrepreneurs 
    should be dissuaded from bad projects.  That is, one effect of 
    successful ENTR education is a reduction is some kinds of action-taking.

    The difference Marcos observes may be due to related effects.  Here 
    are a couple of hypotheses.
    1.  Enthusiastic undergraduates are more likely to jump into ventures 
    that have not yet been well thought-out.
    2.  More mature MBAs are more likely to identify the flaws in 
    premature ventures, and hence avoid them.

    Now, in some programs, it is also true that the undergraduates take 
    more ENTR, as well as more general Business, courses than the MBAs.  
    That may be a confounding factor.

    Does anyone have any grounded contingency analyses, or other 
    empirical observations, on the matter of what educational experiences 
    lead to what kinds of choices in action-taking, or not?

    Best,

    Tom.

    BTW, there was some good research done some time ago in Nova Scotia 
    about the ENTR intentions of high school students.  It showed a 
    rising trend as ENTR became more visible to the public.  Recent US 
    data showed that approximately 70% of American high schoolers expect 
    to be self-employed at some stage in their careers.  In that respect, 
    they look like Marcos' undergraduates.  What's causing the dampening 
    effect among the MBAs?


    On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    > >Every year I make a survey in undergraduate and MBA classes. I ask 
    > how many of the students intend to become an entrepreneur within 
    > the next five years after completing the course. Undergrad 
    > responses use to be around 80%, while MBA students responses don't 
    > go over 30%. The 'excuses' of these students is that they 'have 
    > more to lose' (employment, family, image, life quality, etc).
    >
    > Any comments on it?
    >
    > Marcos Hashimoto
    > Ibmec Sao Paulo
    > Brazil
    >

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    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 5.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-09-2007 12:29

    There has been sufficient evidence that education is inversely correlated with entrepreneurial initiatives and Marcus' thoughts pertaining to the incident with his mother is a very poignant, but appropriate illustration of education providing opportunities to analyze risk, and that sometimes we can over analyze opportunities.  I am reminded of research early in my academic career that showed push motivated entrepreneurs were actually more successful in achieving economic viability, and the unmistakable findings that persistence in the face of adversity is probably the most universal characteristic of successful "entrepreneurs" in a global sense.  These may not be the "macro" entrepreneurs of Bill Gates success, and most will remain small, self-employed or micro-businesses, but will achieve the independence and economic sustenance they seek.   While it is technically correct that we teach risk analysis, when Marcos mentions "number of employees and investments in equipment" at doing the analysis for his Mother, I immediately wondered whether the analysis included a range of options, from bare necessity (no employees, household oven or used commercial oven) as one end of the continuum.   Linking this thought onto Marcos' comments (incorporating deceptive information within each session for to teach his students) makes me all the more convinced that our principle objective is to teach students (whatever their age) to ask the right questions, perform adequate research, and to think critically.    The mechanics (how to prepare a cash-flow statement, or the information that is necessarily included within a business plan) are readily available from any number of books or off of the internet.   I believe our calling as educators is to demonstrate the value of inquiry and the benefits of critical thinking, without sacrificing their enthusiasm.   

    Emeric

    Dr. Emeric Solymossy
    Associate Professor of Management and Entrepreneurship
    <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Western</st1:placename> <st1:placename w:st="on">Illinois</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype></st1:place> - Quad Cities
    <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">3561 60th Street</st1:street>, <st1:city w:st="on">Moline</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">IL</st1:state>  <st1:postalcode w:st="on">61265</st1:postalcode></st1:address>
    phone:  309-762-9481 Ext 249      fax: 309-762-6989
    web site:      http://faculty.wiu.edu/E-Solymossy/
    reply to:    E-Solymossy@wiu.edu

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Marcos Hashimoto
    Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:03 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: [ENTREP] RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Let me share with you a small example of this.

     

    A few months ago I was helping my mother in making some cookies by using a distict exclusive recipe. The cookies are really delicious and everybody likes it a lot. During this meeting, influenced by the several positive reactions from some friends about these cookies, she mentioned the idea of launching a business with it.

     

    Trying to help her, I used all my knowledge to design a brief business evaluation analysis. So I started making questions about the number of employees required, the investments in equipments, the cost of raw material, the time required to make a certain amount of cookies, what would be the minimum price for each package, the points of sale that she could develop, how to promote the product and several other questions. As she was answering, I was converting all data into numbers and I came up, after a few conversation hours, with an amount of investment, cash flow projection and roughly payback of 3 to 4 years. In other words, some detailed analysis would be necessary but, in a first glance, it seemed not to be an interesting business.

     

    After saying that, with all the confidence of an entrepreneurship teacher and specialist, I saw the shine in her eyes suddenly disappear behind an unexpected frustration. I tried to recover her enthusiasm by saying it was just an overall analysis and no decision should be taken prior to some data confirmation but she just replied 'We'll, you are the specialist, if you say it doesn't worth, then there it is, let's just forget all this conversation, OK?'

     

    Since this episode I've been trying to recover the idea but unsuccessfully, the same time, I've been wondering about the role of entrepreneurship educators and consultants. Aren't we just giving students the rationale that just kill dreams? Can we just kill an idea by using rational arguments and forget skills, behavior, the power of enthusiasm and all the people personal power to convert bad ideas into successfull businesses?

     

    Aren't we part of the responsibles for turning the 80% into 30% with the pure business management knowledge? How can we, as educators, balance technical issues to behaviorial components in new businesses development?

     

    Regards

     

    Marcos Hashimoto

     

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Tom Bryant
    Enviada: qui 5/4/2007 03:19
    <st1:place w:st="on">Para</st1:place>: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Marcos had a very interesting observation about relative perceptions 
    of risk between grad and undergrad students (excerpted below).

    Some members of this list may be familiar with Harvard's admonishment 
    of its MBAs that they should NOT launch new ventures for at least 
    five years after graduation -- notably ignored by many during the 
    dot.com boom.

    One of the commonly used marks of successful ENTR programs is 
    teaching students to NOT take the wrong risks.  That should translate 
    into "mature judgement" -- which means some would-be entrepreneurs 
    should be dissuaded from bad projects.  That is, one effect of 
    successful ENTR education is a reduction is some kinds of action-taking.

    The difference Marcos observes may be due to related effects.  Here 
    are a couple of hypotheses.
    1.  Enthusiastic undergraduates are more likely to jump into ventures 
    that have not yet been well thought-out.
    2.  More mature MBAs are more likely to identify the flaws in 
    premature ventures, and hence avoid them.

    Now, in some programs, it is also true that the undergraduates take 
    more ENTR, as well as more general Business, courses than the MBAs.  
    That may be a confounding factor.

    Does anyone have any grounded contingency analyses, or other 
    empirical observations, on the matter of what educational experiences 
    lead to what kinds of choices in action-taking, or not?

    Best,

    Tom.

    BTW, there was some good research done some time ago in <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nova Scotia</st1:place></st1:state> 
    about the ENTR intentions of high school students.  It showed a 
    rising trend as ENTR became more visible to the public.  Recent <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> 
    data showed that approximately 70% of American high schoolers expect 
    to be self-employed at some stage in their careers.  In that respect, 
    they look like Marcos' undergraduates.  What's causing the dampening 
    effect among the MBAs?


    On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    > >Every year I make a survey in undergraduate and MBA classes. I ask 
    > how many of the students intend to become an entrepreneur within 
    > the next five years after completing the course. Undergrad 
    > responses use to be around 80%, while MBA students responses don't 
    > go over 30%. The 'excuses' of these students is that they 'have 
    > more to lose' (employment, family, image, life quality, etc).
    >
    > Any comments on it?
    >
    > Marcos Hashimoto
    > Ibmec Sao Paulo
    > <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Brazil</st1:place></st1:country-region>
    >

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Academy</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename w:st="on">Management</st1:placename></st1:place>.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 6.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 18:27

    I am seriously thinking in remodeling my course, giving more room for intrapreneurship, social e-ship, family business, e-ship behavior, creativity and innovation, ethnic e-ship, intl e-ship, women e-ship etc and less business plans. May I understand teaching Bplans in e-ship chair in a b-school sounds redundant? May I assume students at this point should know basic concepts to write their BPlans without specific classes?

     

    Marcos Hashimoto
    ( (55-11) 4504-2300 – x. 2713
    1     Entrepreneurship Center
    * MarcosH@isp.edu.br

    www.ibmecsp.edu.br

    300, Quata st - Vila Olimpia - SP

     

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] <st1:personname productid="Em nome de Norris Krueger" w:st="on">Em nome de <st1:personname w:st="on">Norris Krueger</st1:personname></st1:personname>
    Enviada em: terça-feira, 10 de abril de 2007 11:44
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.

    What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    1) go to work for one
    2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    3) go into their family's business
    4) be intrapreneurial, even
    5) socially entrepreneurial
    etc.

    Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?

    As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?

    Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for life.

    Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social entrepreneurship? What else?

    Cheers!
    Norris

    On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:

    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether  or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au


           Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: <st1:personname w:st="on">Jack Savidge</st1:personname> <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    >   Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    >   students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    >   some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    >   assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    >   certainly far less for all other 1st World
    >   countries. One need only look at the new business
    >   formations in European countries to know culture
    >   damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    >   business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    >   how-to start new ventures whether within an
    >   enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    >   Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    >   graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    >   thumping "here's how to start a business"
    >   entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    >   large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    >   measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    >   serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    >   lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    >   In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    >   Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    >   www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    >   (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    >   prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    >   enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    >   workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    >   faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    >   funding process. We believed all students should get
    >   entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    >   rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    >   why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    >   phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    >   and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    >   1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    >   hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    >   technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of
    >   operating or chief executive. These all under the
    >   umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    >   of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    >   "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    >   "heroism." <st1:metricconverter productid="3. a" w:st="on">3. a</st1:metricconverter>. State; condition; quality:
    >   "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    >   excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    >   Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    >   a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    >   "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    >   given group: "racism."]   The ~ 10% process the
    >   content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    >   confident they will understand what happens and
    >   actions are taking place when they get to the
    >   workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    >   into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    >   sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    >   students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    >   <st1:personname w:st="on">Jack Savidge</st1:personname>
    >
    >   Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    >   jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    >   [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    >   <st1:personname w:st="on">Norris Krueger</st1:personname>
    >   Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    >   To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >   Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    >   One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    >   on TV, he said...
    >
    >   "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    >   ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    >   management."
    >
    >   LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    >   perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    >   world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    >   hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    >   toll, I'd think.
    >
    >   (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    >   an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    >   On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    >   s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    >
    >   What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    >   I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    >   to efficiently run
    >   businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    >   up.  The models that we
    >   teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    >   and White (1981) have
    >   shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both
    >   large
    >   corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    >   firms, I completely
    >   identify with the argument made in the above
    >   paper.  It may well be that
    >   we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    >   distinct: entrepreneurship
    >   education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    >   focusing
    >   on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    >   doing so well, and with a
    >   choice in the latter of specialising towards
    >   corporate management or
    >   entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    >   with the
    >   entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    >   Request please share any such streaming being tried
    >   in your school.
    >
    >   Cheers
    >   Sanjay
    >
    >   Sanjay Bhowmick
    >   The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    >   **************************************
    >   This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    >   the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management.
    >
    >   Please do not post messages with attached files.
    >   Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    >   allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder
    >   "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    >   removal from the list.
    >
    >   You can manage your subscription options, including
    >   joining or leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    >   Ventures HO!
    >
    >   --
    >   <st1:personname w:st="on">Norris Krueger</st1:personname>, Jr., Ph.D.
    >   Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    >   (208) 440-3747
    >   skype: norris.krueger
    >   "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    >   -Cicero ************************************** This
    >   message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    >
    >   ************************************** This message
    >   is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!




    --
    <st1:personname w:st="on">Norris Krueger</st1:personname>, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 7.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 23:53
    No-can't assume. Offerings look good...just add global microenterprise/-microentrepreneurship.

    Harriet Stephenson
    Seattle University
    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Marcos Hashimoto <MarcosH@ISP.EDU.BR>
    Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:26:43
    To:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: [ENTREP] RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    I am seriously thinking in remodeling my course, giving more room for intrapreneurship, social e-ship, family business, e-ship behavior, creativity and innovation, ethnic e-ship, intl e-ship, women e-ship etc and less business plans. May I understand teaching Bplans in e-ship chair in a b-school sounds redundant? May I assume students at this point should know basic concepts to write their BPlans without specific classes?

     



    <http://www.ibmecsp.edu.br> <cid:image001.gif@01C77BA6.245E0EC0>

    Marcos Hashimoto
    ( (55-11) 4504-2300 – x. 2713
    1 Entrepreneurship Center
    * MarcosH@isp.edu.br


    www.ibmecsp.edu.br

    300, Quata st - Vila Olimpia - SP

     



    ----------------

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] Em nome de Norris Krueger
    Enviada em: terça-feira, 10 de abril de 2007 11:44
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.

    What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    1) go to work for one
    2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    3) go into their family's business
    4) be intrapreneurial, even
    5) socially entrepreneurial
    etc.

    Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?

    As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?

    Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for life.

    Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social entrepreneurship? What else?

    Cheers!
    Norris


    On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au: <mailto:per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> > wrote:

    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether  or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au: <mailto:per.davidsson@qut.edu.au>


           Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU: <mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    >
    >   Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    >   students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    >   some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    >   assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    >   certainly far less for all other 1st World
    >   countries. One need only look at the new business
    >   formations in European countries to know culture
    >   damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    >   business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    >   how-to start new ventures whether within an
    >   enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    >   Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    >   graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    >   thumping "here's how to start a business"
    >   entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    >   large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    >   measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    >   serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    >   lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    >   In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    >   Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    >   www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu: <http://www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu> - rested on two initiatives:
    >   (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    >   prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    >   enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    >   workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    >   faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    >   funding process. We believed all students should get
    >   entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    >   rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    >   why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    >   phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    >   and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    >   1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    >   hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    >   technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of
    >   operating or chief executive. These all under the
    >   umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    >   of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    >   "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    >   "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    >   "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    >   excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    >   Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    >   a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    >   "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    >   given group: "racism."]   The ~ 10% process the
    >   content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    >   confident they will understand what happens and
    >   actions are taking place when they get to the
    >   workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    >   into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    >   sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    >   students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    >   Jack Savidge
    >
    >   Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    >   jsavidge@ucsd.edu: <mailto:jsavidge@ucsd.edu>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    >   [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU: <mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU> ] On Behalf Of
    >   Norris Krueger
    >   Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    >   To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU: <mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    >   Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    >   One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    >   on TV, he said...
    >
    >   "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    >   ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    >   management."
    >
    >   LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    >   perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    >   world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    >   hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    >   toll, I'd think.
    >
    >   (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    >   an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    >   On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    >   s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz: <mailto:s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> > wrote:
    >
    >   What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    >   I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    >   to efficiently run
    >   businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    >   up.  The models that we
    >   teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    >   and White (1981) have
    >   shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both
    >   large
    >   corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    >   firms, I completely
    >   identify with the argument made in the above
    >   paper.  It may well be that
    >   we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    >   distinct: entrepreneurship
    >   education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    >   focusing
    >   on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    >   doing so well, and with a
    >   choice in the latter of specialising towards
    >   corporate management or
    >   entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    >   with the
    >   entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    >   Request please share any such streaming being tried
    >   in your school.
    >
    >   Cheers
    >   Sanjay
    >
    >   Sanjay Bhowmick
    >   The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    >   **************************************
    >   This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    >   the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management.
    >
    >   Please do not post messages with attached files.
    >   Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    >   allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder
    >   "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    >   removal from the list.
    >
    >   You can manage your subscription options, including
    >   joining or leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    >   Ventures HO!
    >
    >   --
    >   Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    >   Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    >   (208) 440-3747
    >   skype: norris.krueger
    >   "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    >   -Cicero ************************************** This
    >   message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
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    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu: <mailto:jbunch@benedictine.edu> . Ventures HO!
    >
    >   ************************************** This message
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    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 8.  RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-24-2007 22:27

    Most of the entrepreneurs I work with/learned from/etc. would use those numbers as the starting point – what WOULD it take to make this profitable, desirable, fun, whatever? I think that's part of the essential difference in the way entrepreneurs think. The information you obtained from running the numbers is useful feedback in the sense that the approach described really isn't going to work well. Then they would start thinking about what would it take?

     

    So once my students run the numbers and decide it's not worth doing, I have ask for an hour long meeting and keep asking what would it take?  At first they shrug, then get a little frustrated; but if you can live with their frustration for a little while, most break through the barrier (if only to shut me up) and start to come up with creative solutions. The real creativity in entrepreneurship comes in the opportunity shaping phase, not in the opportunity identification phase.

     

    However, this approach is a habit of thinking that must be instilled – you need to repeat it endless times with each individual until they start asking themselves.

     

    Connie Marie Gaglio, PhD

    Associate Professor, Entrepreneurship

    Director, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Ohrenschall</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Center</st1:placetype></st1:place> for Entrepreneurshp

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Marcos Hashimoto
    Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 6:03 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: [ENTREP] RES: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Let me share with you a small example of this.

     

    A few months ago I was helping my mother in making some cookies by using a distict exclusive recipe. The cookies are really delicious and everybody likes it a lot. During this meeting, influenced by the several positive reactions from some friends about these cookies, she mentioned the idea of launching a business with it.

     

    Trying to help her, I used all my knowledge to design a brief business evaluation analysis. So I started making questions about the number of employees required, the investments in equipments, the cost of raw material, the time required to make a certain amount of cookies, what would be the minimum price for each package, the points of sale that she could develop, how to promote the product and several other questions. As she was answering, I was converting all data into numbers and I came up, after a few conversation hours, with an amount of investment, cash flow projection and roughly payback of 3 to 4 years. In other words, some detailed analysis would be necessary but, in a first glance, it seemed not to be an interesting business.

     

    After saying that, with all the confidence of an entrepreneurship teacher and specialist, I saw the shine in her eyes suddenly disappear behind an unexpected frustration. I tried to recover her enthusiasm by saying it was just an overall analysis and no decision should be taken prior to some data confirmation but she just replied 'We'll, you are the specialist, if you say it doesn't worth, then there it is, let's just forget all this conversation, OK?'

     

    Since this episode I've been trying to recover the idea but unsuccessfully, the same time, I've been wondering about the role of entrepreneurship educators and consultants. Aren't we just giving students the rationale that just kill dreams? Can we just kill an idea by using rational arguments and forget skills, behavior, the power of enthusiasm and all the people personal power to convert bad ideas into successfull businesses?

     

    Aren't we part of the responsibles for turning the 80% into 30% with the pure business management knowledge? How can we, as educators, balance technical issues to behaviorial components in new businesses development?

     

    Regards

     

    Marcos Hashimoto

     

    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Tom Bryant
    Enviada: qui 5/4/2007 03:19
    <st1:place w:st="on">Para</st1:place>: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Marcos had a very interesting observation about relative perceptions 
    of risk between grad and undergrad students (excerpted below).

    Some members of this list may be familiar with Harvard's admonishment 
    of its MBAs that they should NOT launch new ventures for at least 
    five years after graduation -- notably ignored by many during the 
    dot.com boom.

    One of the commonly used marks of successful ENTR programs is 
    teaching students to NOT take the wrong risks.  That should translate 
    into "mature judgement" -- which means some would-be entrepreneurs 
    should be dissuaded from bad projects.  That is, one effect of 
    successful ENTR education is a reduction is some kinds of action-taking.

    The difference Marcos observes may be due to related effects.  Here 
    are a couple of hypotheses.
    1.  Enthusiastic undergraduates are more likely to jump into ventures 
    that have not yet been well thought-out.
    2.  More mature MBAs are more likely to identify the flaws in 
    premature ventures, and hence avoid them.

    Now, in some programs, it is also true that the undergraduates take 
    more ENTR, as well as more general Business, courses than the MBAs.  
    That may be a confounding factor.

    Does anyone have any grounded contingency analyses, or other 
    empirical observations, on the matter of what educational experiences 
    lead to what kinds of choices in action-taking, or not?

    Best,

    Tom.

    BTW, there was some good research done some time ago in <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nova Scotia</st1:place></st1:state> 
    about the ENTR intentions of high school students.  It showed a 
    rising trend as ENTR became more visible to the public.  Recent <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> 
    data showed that approximately 70% of American high schoolers expect 
    to be self-employed at some stage in their careers.  In that respect, 
    they look like Marcos' undergraduates.  What's causing the dampening 
    effect among the MBAs?


    On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    > >Every year I make a survey in undergraduate and MBA classes. I ask 
    > how many of the students intend to become an entrepreneur within 
    > the next five years after completing the course. Undergrad 
    > responses use to be around 80%, while MBA students responses don't 
    > go over 30%. The 'excuses' of these students is that they 'have 
    > more to lose' (employment, family, image, life quality, etc).
    >
    > Any comments on it?
    >
    > Marcos Hashimoto
    > Ibmec Sao Paulo
    > <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Brazil</st1:place></st1:country-region>
    >

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    Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!