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training to take risk NOT

  • 1.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 00:03
    Dear Maciej:

    Smart (wealthy accumulating, serial, successful) entrepreneurs do NOT take risks, at least not ones they aren't prepared to handle.  Amateurs, first-timers, and ones who are unlikely to make a series of correct choices -- those are the folks taking risks -- and losing.  If we are doing things right in our courses, one of the signs should be that our graduates do not take those kinds of risks.  

    What we should be seeing among some of our graduates is successful entrepreneuring -- because we have shown them how to assess feasibility, discard low probability options, choose higher probability options, and manage the vagaries of the launch and growth processes.  Others should decide that they have yet to see the opportunity that motivates them enough.  

    If many students still want to be VCs, then perhaps that is because we have correctly shown them how hard its is to create successful new ventures -- without also showing them how much harder it is to thrive as a VC.  If they used to think that being an entrepreneur was the path to get rich quick, and now think that being a VC is a better path to the same fool's destination, their education is still incomplete.  

    Tom.



    Dr. Tom Bryant, Executive Director
    Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship
    Rohrer Professor of Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rohrer College of Business, Rowan University
    Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA
    (856) 256-4126;  e-mail:  bryant@rowan.edu



    On Apr 2, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Maciej Koczerga wrote:

    Hello everyone:
     
    Once I heard an opinion that after entrepreneurship courses majority of students are much more interested in becoming venture capitalists than entrepreneurs.
     
    My question then is: how do you train people to take entrepreneurial risks (NOT prepare business plans)? Do you really think that business plans, cases, simulations help with it?
     
    Regards,
    Maciej
     
    --------------------------
    Dr. Maciej Koczerga,
    Assistant Professor
    Department of Marketing Strategies
    The Poznan University of Economics
    Al. Niepodleglosci 10, 60-967 Poznan, Poland
    tel. 061 854 37 69, fax 061 854 37 77
     
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 2.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 01:52
    Even dumb. lazy ones (like me) are the same!

    Entrepreneurs are largely risk-minimizers (or optimizers, if you prefer). They may assume risks (from our perspective), they probably think of themselves as risk takers, yet studies show that entrepreneurs are like the rest of us - we are all "moderate risk takers". (We gamble, yet we also buy insurance.)

    It could be better to say that entrepreneurs are better at embracing uncertainty, rather than risk (see Frank Knight's classic distinction). However, perhaps what you are looking for action taking.

    Consider Kahneman & Tversky's preference reversals - Are we more risk-averse under gain framing and less risk-averse under loss framing? Seemingly - but a different way to look at this is more about taking action than taking risk. We reject a proposition framed as a gamble, yet accept it when framed as insurance (Vegas loves that one, LOL)

    So, perhaps a good question to ask - is how do we inspire students and clients to take action but as Tom points out so nicely - take intelligent action??  Does that put us in the business of helping people learn judgment?

    Thanks, Maciej, for starting some discussion! If any of us can ever be of help, just holler!

    N

    On 4/2/07, Tom Bryant < tom.brystra@gmail.com> wrote:
    Dear Maciej:

    Smart (wealthy accumulating, serial, successful) entrepreneurs do NOT take risks, at least not ones they aren't prepared to handle.  Amateurs, first-timers, and ones who are unlikely to make a series of correct choices -- those are the folks taking risks -- and losing.  If we are doing things right in our courses, one of the signs should be that our graduates do not take those kinds of risks.  

    What we should be seeing among some of our graduates is successful entrepreneuring -- because we have shown them how to assess feasibility, discard low probability options, choose higher probability options, and manage the vagaries of the launch and growth processes.  Others should decide that they have yet to see the opportunity that motivates them enough.  

    If many students still want to be VCs, then perhaps that is because we have correctly shown them how hard its is to create successful new ventures -- without also showing them how much harder it is to thrive as a VC.  If they used to think that being an entrepreneur was the path to get rich quick, and now think that being a VC is a better path to the same fool's destination, their education is still incomplete.  

    Tom.



    Dr. Tom Bryant, Executive Director
    Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship
    Rohrer Professor of Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rohrer College of Business, Rowan University
    Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA
    (856) 256-4126 ;  e-mail:  bryant@rowan.edu



    On Apr 2, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Maciej Koczerga wrote:

    Hello everyone:
     
    Once I heard an opinion that after entrepreneurship courses majority of students are much more interested in becoming venture capitalists than entrepreneurs.
     
    My question then is: how do you train people to take entrepreneurial risks (NOT prepare business plans)? Do you really think that business plans, cases, simulations help with it?
     
    Regards,
    Maciej
     
    --------------------------
    Dr. Maciej Koczerga,
    Assistant Professor
    Department of Marketing Strategies
    The Poznan University of Economics
    Al. Niepodleglosci 10, 60-967 Poznan, Poland
    tel. 061 854 37 69, fax 061 854 37 77
     
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!



    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    http://mg.boisestate.edu/teams_krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 3.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 04:04
    Taking risk or taking action?


    The entrepreneur's ability to act with incomplete information, aka
    tolerance of ambiguity, is what people watching may call risk taking.
    Successful entrepreneurs seem to 'back themselves' (stop loss, other
    ideas, alternate employment) while acting with little information. Does
    anyone know of a successful entrepreneur who did not have an alternative
    to the project that turned out good?

    If there is any agreement, this is one template for teaching.

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  • 4.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 04:27
    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action" 

    Regards,
    Maciej
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  • 5.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 09:23
    Colleagues:
     
    Entrepreneurs are inspired to take direct action, but bear risk throughout the process of innovation. If they are smart, they will take action to avoid failure (i.e., minimize risk; stop loss; alternative strategies), but they choose to  bear risk that others would not tolerate.
     
    I recently read an article by Roger Martin and Sally Osberg: "Social Entrepreneurship: The Case for Definition", Stanford Social Innovation Review, Spring 2007, pp. 33-39.
     
    Before defining social entrepreneurship, the authors presented the  following entrepreneurial characteristics:
     
    1. The entrepreneur is inspired to alter an existing equilibrium.
    2. The entrepeneur thinks creatively and develops new solutions that dramatically breaks with the existing one.
    3. Once inspired by the opportunity and in possession of a creative solution, the entrepreneur takes direct action.
    4. Entrepreneurs demonstrate courage throughout the process of innovation, bearing the burden of risk and staring failure squarely if not repeatedly in the face.
    5. Entrepreneurs posess the fortitude to drive their creaive solutions thruugh to fruition and market adoption.
     
    I think their definition applies nicely to this discussion.
     
    Have a good day.
     
    Curt DeBerg
    Accounting Professor
    CSU, Chico

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv on behalf of Maciej Koczerga
    Sent: Tue 4/3/2007 1:26 AM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action" 

    Regards,
    Maciej
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    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 6.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 10:00

    Maciej,

    The issue you bring up is an important one and I am sure many entrepreneurship teachers struggle with it. For whatever it is worth, here is how I deal with the issue of "courage to take entrepreneurial action" in my course:

    I teach an undergraduate course in Foundations of Entrepreneurship. In this course, I don't take a business plan approach, but instead take a 'role model' approach. What I mean by a 'role model' approach is that I present normal, everyday entrepreneurs to students as role models. I do this by (1) showing them a short video about an entrepreneur every class session, (2) inviting entrepreneurs from the community as guest speakers, (3) asking them to find a 'student entrepreneur' and do a short assignment (4-5 pages) on this person, and (4) a similar assignment on a local entrepreneur. My students tell me they find this approach useful because it shows them 'it can be done', exactly the sort of thing that encourages people to take action. The course ends with a short concept paper (not a business plan), where students present their business ideas to the class. The concept paper makes sure that students finish the course with an actionable business idea.

    I am not sure if there are others who take a similar approach or not. If any one has any experience with this approach or any thoughts about it, feel free to comment/critique.

    Vishal  

    ***************************************************************************
    Vishal K. Gupta
    Assistant Professor
    College of Business Administration,
    University of Nebraska at Omaha,
    Omaha, NE 68182
    http://myweb.unomaha.edu/~vgupta
    ***************************************************************************



    Maciej Koczerga <m.koczerga@AE.POZNAN.PL>
    Sent by: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv <ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>

    04/03/2007 08:36 AM

    Please respond to
    Maciej Koczerga <m.koczerga@AE.POZNAN.PL>

    To
    ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    cc
    Subject
    Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT





    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action"

    Regards,

    Maciej
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
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  • 7.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-03-2007 11:56

    Risk and Reward drive potential entrepreneurs. Below is an extract of my published book – Hope this helps clarify the subject.

     

              CHAPTER FIVE - THE RISKS AND REWARDS

     

     An Entrepreneur's Counterbalance

    Business is the prudent management of risk and reward. Let's define those operative words      .. risk, reward and prudent. The dictionary defines:

             

    Risk as -

                      "a chance or possibility of danger, loss, injury, or other adverse consequences."            

              Reward as -

                      "a return or recompense for service or merit."

              PRUDENT as -

                     "careful to avoid undesired consequences" and "capable of exercising sound judgment in practical matters" or "sensible, not rash."

     

                                 I prefer Reward over Risk but I cherish Prudence. Here is my definition of entrepreneurism:

     

    RISKS ARE TAKEN FOR SUCCESS WHEN THE PERCEIVED REWARDS FOR SUCCESS ARE GREATER THAN THE PERCEIVED RISKS OF FAILURE.    PERCEPTIONS ARE OF THE TWO ARE  DEFINED WITH PRUDENCE .

     

     

    Entrepreneurism and Cultures

              Each person has natural, experiential or survival responses to risk taking for rewards. Each community, whether local or global, reacts to the consequences of risk in different manner. So, risk-taking for perceived rewards must be prudently weighed and balanced in consideration of self, family, employees and community.

               Some societies applaud and encourage risk taking to build wealth. Many cultures envy the successful who amass possessions while others shut out those for such extraordinary monetary gain. Many cultures shame those who fail even though they tried their best. Many are cruel and unforgiving until adequate compensation is made to all who suffered from another's failure. Few societies urge those who failed to "try again." Cultural studies suggest these attitudes about risk and reward:


                                 American culture encourages risk and excessive monetary reward.

                                 European cultures discourage risk and excessive monetary reward.

                                 Eastern cultures encourage risk and limited monetary reward.

     

               Cultural perceptions of wealth and financial failure define the limits of  entrepreneurial risk and reward. Ask yourself, then your management and Board whether the company vision and goals are within prudent and acceptable boundaries of Risk and Reward?  

     

    Key Personal Risk Factors in Growing a Company include:

                Your family time is sacrificed for the company.

                Your finances can be ruined by failure.

                Your wealth may change your community status.

                Your well being can be harmed by business stress.

                Your reputation is in jeopardy.

     

    Key Personal Rewards by Growing a Company include:

                Freedom to run your own life and time.

                Pride of creating a business family.

                Community service by creating new jobs.

                Personal accomplishment and growth.

                Improved standard of living.

                Recognition by peers and family.

     

    Expected Financial Rewards include:       

                   CEO/Managing Director - above average income, company ownership, and unique benefits.

                   Employees - reasonable income, social benefits, and perhaps company ownership.

                   Community  - increased taxes from higher employment.

     

    Expected Psychological Rewards include:

                    Satisfaction - providing for yourself and employees.


     

                                   Accomplishment - making your vision come true.


     

                                   Self-confidence -  by mastering uncertainty.


     

                            Thrill of the Game - meeting the challenges and winning."

     

    Regards,

     

    Jack Savidge

    Deputy Director, The von Liebig Center

    Univ. of California, San Diego

    jsavidge@ucsd.edu

     

     

     

    Jack Savidge

    Deputy

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Vishal Gupta
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:00 AM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     


    Maciej,

    The issue you bring up is an important one and I am sure many entrepreneurship teachers struggle with it. For whatever it is worth, here is how I deal with the issue of "courage to take entrepreneurial action" in my course:

    I teach an undergraduate course in Foundations of Entrepreneurship. In this course, I don't take a business plan approach, but instead take a 'role model' approach. What I mean by a 'role model' approach is that I present normal, everyday entrepreneurs to students as role models. I do this by (1) showing them a short video about an entrepreneur every class session, (2) inviting entrepreneurs from the community as guest speakers, (3) asking them to find a 'student entrepreneur' and do a short assignment (4-5 pages) on this person, and (4) a similar assignment on a local entrepreneur. My students tell me they find this approach useful because it shows them 'it can be done', exactly the sort of thing that encourages people to take action. The course ends with a short concept paper (not a business plan), where students present their business ideas to the class. The concept paper makes sure that students finish the course with an actionable business idea.

    I am not sure if there are others who take a similar approach or not. If any one has any experience with this approach or any thoughts about it, feel free to comment/critique.

    Vishal  

    ***************************************************************************
    Vishal K. Gupta
    Assistant Professor
    College of Business Administration,
    University of Nebraska at Omaha,
    Omaha, NE 68182
    http://myweb.unomaha.edu/~vgupta
    ***************************************************************************


    Maciej Koczerga <m.koczerga@AE.POZNAN.PL>
    Sent by: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv <ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>

    04/03/2007 08:36 AM

    Please respond to
    Maciej Koczerga <m.koczerga@AE.POZNAN.PL>

    To

    ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU

    cc

    Subject

    Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     




    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action"

    Regards,

    Maciej
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
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    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 8.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-04-2007 05:00
    Great thread this. Even if we discuss entrepreneurship research and
    entrepreneurship teaching together.

    Yes, as Tom says, entrepreneurs will not take risk that will kill them -
    and some have said it in so many words. I agree with Norris that we, as
    entrepreneurship educators, need to focus on action taking. This becomes
    easier if we acknowledge that the entrepreneur is motivated to act not by
    the risk but to pursue opportunity, to appropriate the rewards that flow
    from it - by pipping everyone else to the post. (This may largely be the
    difference that commercial entrepreneurship has with social
    entrepreneurship as I see from what Curtis writes. To me there's a
    fundamental difference between the two entrepreneurs where one "takes" and
    the other "gives" which is why, I think, it is hard to study social
    entrepreneurship with the lens that we've called entrepreneurship so far.)

    Getting back to risk - I don't find it particularly helpful to go by
    Knightian distinction of risk and uncertainty while thinking
    entrepreneurship. I have not seen anyone come up with convincing examples
    of what by that distinction can be characterised as risk not uncertainty,
    or vice versa. (Entrepreneurs estimate what they can lose if
    things went wrong more definitely than they can the dollars they
    will make, to put in (my) perspective Maciej’s point about calculated
    risk). For instance, would you say a hitech company with a new product
    offering is in the Knightian uncertainty space? What about probing
    new markets? What about “low-tech” product – a new logic, say, in lending
    that Muhammad Yunus came up with? Ability to estimate the supply and
    demand distribution doesn’t seem to be strong enough to
    distinguish risk and uncertainty - as Giddens has famously said “that
    distinction doesn’t hold water; there are too many fuzzy areas in the
    middle” (Giddens & Pierson, 1998:105). His concept of ‘engineered safety’
    and ‘manufactured risk/uncertainty’ and increasing coverage of insurance
    (that Norris also alluded to) is interesting.

    Entrepreneurs ‘back themselves’ and take action. Perhaps we should follow
    that in entrepreneurship teaching. The added advantage in this perspective
    is that it does not take the entrepreneur to be the hero as a given, as
    some recent writing also argue.

    Look forward to other views, folk.

    Sanjay Bhowmick
    The Universtiy of Auckland Business School

    Giddens, A., & Pierson, C. (1998). Conversations with Anthony Giddens :
    Making Sense of Modernity. Cambridge [England]: Polity Press.

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  • 9.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-05-2007 01:50
    Marcos:

    I'm not inclined to follow your lead on encouraging illegal risk-taking.  That's the sort of thing that gives entrepreneurs terrible reputations as people who contradict well-established social standards, i.e., fully codified legal systems.  And it tends to land them in jail, broke.  To me, that is foolish risk-taking, and I would not encourage it in my school.  

    Better by far, I think, is the example of Ken Fowler, a Canadian multi-serial entrepreneur, who hires the best lawyers and accountants -- precisely because their expertise gives them good abilities to sense the emergence of new social sanctions, and hence to advise Dr. Fowler about what he should avoid.  

    I believe we should be teaching students how to sense different degrees of "the rules to keep and the rules to test" -- not how to break rules that will cause heavy sanctions, like expulsion from the university for cheating on exams.  To me, those are the kinds of foolish risks that smart entrepreneurs (and well-educated ENTR students) avoid taking.  

    Tom Bryant



    Dr. Tom Bryant, Executive Director
    Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship
    Rohrer Chair in Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rohrer College of Business, Rowan University
    Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA
    (856) 256-4126;  e-mail:  bryant@rowan.edu



    On Apr 3, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    Here are some things (unusual, I know) I use to promote taking risks behavior in class:
     
    1) There's a game I play since the first class which is: During each theoretical class, I include a small lie about a concept or fact. It is not clear the moment I do it, but at the end, they can try to confront me with the subject they believe I was wrong. This is, sometimes, very complicated, because they can mention things that I said right, which makes me an extra effort to defend it (you must have much confidence on your knowledge), but I never declare they are right or wrong with the assumption. Only on the beginning of next class I tell them what the lie was. With this, they develop a behavior of not trusting in everything the teacher say and I give prices (as grade points) to those who get the lie or even those who convince me there are additional ways to see the truth!!! The problem is that I am generating conflicts with other teachers as the students like to test this behavior in other disciplines!!
     
    2) During the exams, I develop difficult tests and insist the only way to get good grades is by cribbing somehow. So they are supposely free to try copying from the book or notes under my strong supervision. The risk is failing and getting a zero if I catch him/her. If somehow he/she did it successfully I will only notice it when I have the exam corrected. Being successful in doing that makes this student deserve a high grade for taking the risk!!!!
     
    Best regards
     
    Marcos


    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv em nome de Maciej Koczerga
    Enviada: ter 3/4/2007 05:26
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Hi, perhaps I have expressed myself too colloquially, but by "taking risk by entrepreneurs" I meant "courage to take entrepreneurial action".
     
    Naturally I understand that entrepreneurs are not gamblers and operate under uncertainty rather than risk (in Knightian sense) but on the other hand they are calculated risk-takers, aren't they?
     
    Norris verbalized my thought and question very well: "how do we inspire students and clients to take action" 

    Regards,
    Maciej
    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO! ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 10.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-05-2007 02:19
    Marcos had a very interesting observation about relative perceptions
    of risk between grad and undergrad students (excerpted below).

    Some members of this list may be familiar with Harvard's admonishment
    of its MBAs that they should NOT launch new ventures for at least
    five years after graduation -- notably ignored by many during the
    dot.com boom.

    One of the commonly used marks of successful ENTR programs is
    teaching students to NOT take the wrong risks. That should translate
    into "mature judgement" -- which means some would-be entrepreneurs
    should be dissuaded from bad projects. That is, one effect of
    successful ENTR education is a reduction is some kinds of action-taking.

    The difference Marcos observes may be due to related effects. Here
    are a couple of hypotheses.
    1. Enthusiastic undergraduates are more likely to jump into ventures
    that have not yet been well thought-out.
    2. More mature MBAs are more likely to identify the flaws in
    premature ventures, and hence avoid them.

    Now, in some programs, it is also true that the undergraduates take
    more ENTR, as well as more general Business, courses than the MBAs.
    That may be a confounding factor.

    Does anyone have any grounded contingency analyses, or other
    empirical observations, on the matter of what educational experiences
    lead to what kinds of choices in action-taking, or not?

    Best,

    Tom.

    BTW, there was some good research done some time ago in Nova Scotia
    about the ENTR intentions of high school students. It showed a
    rising trend as ENTR became more visible to the public. Recent US
    data showed that approximately 70% of American high schoolers expect
    to be self-employed at some stage in their careers. In that respect,
    they look like Marcos' undergraduates. What's causing the dampening
    effect among the MBAs?


    On Apr 3, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Marcos Hashimoto wrote:

    > >Every year I make a survey in undergraduate and MBA classes. I ask
    > how many of the students intend to become an entrepreneur within
    > the next five years after completing the course. Undergrad
    > responses use to be around 80%, while MBA students responses don't
    > go over 30%. The 'excuses' of these students is that they 'have
    > more to lose' (employment, family, image, life quality, etc).
    >
    > Any comments on it?
    >
    > Marcos Hashimoto
    > Ibmec Sao Paulo
    > Brazil
    >

    **************************************
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  • 11.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-05-2007 20:49
    What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?

    I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students to efficiently run
    businesses -- "administration" as against setting up. The models that we
    teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh and White (1981) have
    shown it conclusively. Having advised/funded both large
    corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial firms, I completely
    identify with the argument made in the above paper. It may well be that
    we should (continue to) keep the two programs distinct: entrepreneurship
    education and MBA, with the choice in the former of focusing
    on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are doing so well, and with a
    choice in the latter of specialising towards corporate management or
    entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed with the
    entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).

    Request please share any such streaming being tried in your school.


    Cheers
    Sanjay


    Sanjay Bhowmick
    The University of Auckland Business School

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

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  • 12.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-06-2007 10:43
    One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was on TV, he said...

    "There are only 5 business schools in the US...

    ...the rest are academies for corporate middle management."

    LOL, but... The market for b-school students is perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate world. If (larger) local and national employers are hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its toll, I'd think.

    (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )

    On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick < s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?

    I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students to efficiently run
    businesses -- "administration" as against setting up.  The models that we
    teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh and White (1981) have
    shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both large
    corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial firms, I completely
    identify with the argument made in the above paper.  It may well be that
    we should (continue to) keep the two programs distinct: entrepreneurship
    education and MBA, with the choice in the former of focusing
    on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are doing so well, and with a
    choice in the latter of specialising towards corporate management or
    entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed with the
    entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).

    Request please share any such streaming being tried in your school.


    Cheers
    Sanjay


    Sanjay Bhowmick
    The University of Auckland Business School

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

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    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!



    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 13.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-09-2007 12:05

    Let's start with the assumption that of the 100% students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best some 10-15% will ever start a business. This assumption probably holds for the United States, but certainly far less for all other 1st World countries. One need only look at the new business formations in European countries to know culture damping effects are personal barriers to the risky business of entrepreneurship.

     

    Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about how-to start new ventures whether within an enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one. Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will graduate and go on to do that. However, drum thumping "here's how to start a business" entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very large student fraction to wonder whether they do not measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the lessons well enough.  

     

    In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement – www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives: (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently enter the chaotic smaller business technology workplace environment, and (2) a value–adding faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus funding process. We believed all students should get entrepreneurship content but through curricula rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather why, who, when, where, what happens during the work phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper and William Paulin to develop three courses - the 1st designed around the perspectives of the newly hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of operating or chief executive. These all under the umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice: "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality: "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality: "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4. Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5. a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles: "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a given group: "racism."]  The ~ 10% process the content to aide starting a venture, and the 90% confident they will understand what happens and actions are taking place when they get to the workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.

     

    Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few, students seeking new enterprise knowledge?

     

    Jack Savidge

    Deputy Director, von Liebig Center

    jsavidge@ucsd.edu

     

     

     

     

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Norris Krueger
    Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was on TV, he said...

    "There are only 5 business schools in the US...

    ...the rest are academies for corporate middle management."

    LOL, but... The market for b-school students is perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate world. If (larger) local and national employers are hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its toll, I'd think.

    (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )

    On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick < s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

    What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?

    I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students to efficiently run
    businesses -- "administration" as against setting up.  The models that we
    teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh and White (1981) have
    shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both large
    corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial firms, I completely
    identify with the argument made in the above paper.  It may well be that
    we should (continue to) keep the two programs distinct: entrepreneurship
    education and MBA, with the choice in the former of focusing
    on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are doing so well, and with a
    choice in the latter of specialising towards corporate management or
    entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed with the
    entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).

    Request please share any such streaming being tried in your school.


    Cheers
    Sanjay


    Sanjay Bhowmick
    The University of Auckland Business School

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!




    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 14.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 00:14
    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au


    Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    > Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    > students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    > some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    > assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    > certainly far less for all other 1st World
    > countries. One need only look at the new business
    > formations in European countries to know culture
    > damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    > business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    > Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    > how-to start new ventures whether within an
    > enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    > Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    > graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    > thumping "here's how to start a business"
    > entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    > large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    > measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    > serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    > lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    > In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    > Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    > www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    > (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    > prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    > enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    > workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    > faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    > funding process. We believed all students should get
    > entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    > rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    > why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    > phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    > and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    > 1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    > hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    > technical manager and the 3rd from the vantage of
    > operating or chief executive. These all under the
    > umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    > of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    > "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    > "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    > "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    > excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    > Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    > a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    > "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    > given group: "racism."] The ~ 10% process the
    > content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    > confident they will understand what happens and
    > actions are taking place when they get to the
    > workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    > into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    > sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    > Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    > students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    > Jack Savidge
    >
    > Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    > jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    > [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    > Norris Krueger
    > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    > To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    > One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    > on TV, he said...
    >
    > "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    > ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    > management."
    >
    > LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    > perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    > world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    > hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    > toll, I'd think.
    >
    > (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    > an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    > On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    > s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    >
    > What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    > I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    > to efficiently run
    > businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    > up. The models that we
    > teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    > and White (1981) have
    > shown it conclusively. Having advised/funded both
    > large
    > corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    > firms, I completely
    > identify with the argument made in the above
    > paper. It may well be that
    > we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    > distinct: entrepreneurship
    > education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    > focusing
    > on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    > doing so well, and with a
    > choice in the latter of specialising towards
    > corporate management or
    > entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    > with the
    > entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    > Request please share any such streaming being tried
    > in your school.
    >
    > Cheers
    > Sanjay
    >
    > Sanjay Bhowmick
    > The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    > **************************************
    > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    > the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > Management.
    >
    > Please do not post messages with attached files.
    > Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    > allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder
    > "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    > removal from the list.
    >
    > You can manage your subscription options, including
    > joining or leaving the list here:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    > Ventures HO!
    >
    > --
    > Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    > Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    > (208) 440-3747
    > skype: norris.krueger
    > "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    > -Cicero ************************************** This
    > message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > Management. Please do not post messages with
    > attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    > messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    > lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    > your subscription options, including joining or
    > leaving the list here:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    >
    > ************************************** This message
    > is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > Management. Please do not post messages with
    > attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    > messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    > lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    > your subscription options, including joining or
    > leaving the list here:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!


  • 15.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 10:44
    Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.

    What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    1) go to work for one
    2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    3) go into their family's business
    4) be intrapreneurial, even
    5) socially entrepreneurial
    etc.

    Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?

    As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?

    Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for life.

    Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social entrepreneurship? What else?

    Cheers!
    Norris

    On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:
    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether  or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au


           Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    >   Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    >   students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    >   some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    >   assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    >   certainly far less for all other 1st World
    >   countries. One need only look at the new business
    >   formations in European countries to know culture
    >   damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    >   business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    >   how-to start new ventures whether within an
    >   enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    >   Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    >   graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    >   thumping "here's how to start a business"
    >   entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    >   large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    >   measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    >   serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    >   lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    >   In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    >   Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    >   www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    >   (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    >   prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    >   enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    >   workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    >   faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    >   funding process. We believed all students should get
    >   entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    >   rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    >   why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    >   phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    >   and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    >   1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    >   hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    >   technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of
    >   operating or chief executive. These all under the
    >   umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    >   of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    >   "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    >   "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    >   "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    >   excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    >   Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    >   a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    >   "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    >   given group: "racism."]   The ~ 10% process the
    >   content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    >   confident they will understand what happens and
    >   actions are taking place when they get to the
    >   workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    >   into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    >   sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    >   students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    >   Jack Savidge
    >
    >   Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    >   jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    >   [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    >   Norris Krueger
    >   Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    >   To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >   Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    >   One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    >   on TV, he said...
    >
    >   "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    >   ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    >   management."
    >
    >   LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    >   perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    >   world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    >   hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    >   toll, I'd think.
    >
    >   (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    >   an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    >   On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    >   s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    >
    >   What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    >   I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    >   to efficiently run
    >   businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    >   up.  The models that we
    >   teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    >   and White (1981) have
    >   shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both
    >   large
    >   corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    >   firms, I completely
    >   identify with the argument made in the above
    >   paper.  It may well be that
    >   we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    >   distinct: entrepreneurship
    >   education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    >   focusing
    >   on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    >   doing so well, and with a
    >   choice in the latter of specialising towards
    >   corporate management or
    >   entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    >   with the
    >   entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    >   Request please share any such streaming being tried
    >   in your school.
    >
    >   Cheers
    >   Sanjay
    >
    >   Sanjay Bhowmick
    >   The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    >   **************************************
    >   This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    >   the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management.
    >
    >   Please do not post messages with attached files.
    >   Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    >   allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder
    >   "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    >   removal from the list.
    >
    >   You can manage your subscription options, including
    >   joining or leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    >   Ventures HO!
    >
    >   --
    >   Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    >   Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    >   (208) 440-3747
    >   skype: norris.krueger
    >   "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    >   -Cicero ************************************** This
    >   message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    >
    >   ************************************** This message
    >   is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!



    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 16.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 19:20
    Learning to plan a venture - regardless of setting - is good, even in b-school, LOL

    Learn to plan >> learning cookbook b-plans, LOL. Dig up Benson Honig's AMLE article on "contingent" business plans as one place to start. John Mullins's book on "what to do before the business plan" might be quite useful too. Any of the "one-page business plan" templates (see I2P).

    I like the idea of letting the students work to turn ideas into something credible across multiple settings - lifestyle biz vs growth, low tech vs. high tech, social ventures, intrapreneurial ventures, etc. It's cool to watch them see how to connect the dots.. and they CAN do it.

    As you've probably figured out, there's tons of good advice available on here!

    Norris
        p.s. BTW -- have students watch "Dirty Jobs" on Discovery Channel... there are some CRAZY businesses out there! LOL

    On 4/10/07, Marcos Hashimoto <MarcosH@isp.edu.br> wrote:

    I am seriously thinking in remodeling my course, giving more room for intrapreneurship, social e-ship, family business, e-ship behavior, creativity and innovation, ethnic e-ship, intl e-ship, women e-ship etc and less business plans. May I understand teaching Bplans in e-ship chair in a b-school sounds redundant? May I assume students at this point should know basic concepts to write their BPlans without specific classes?

     

    Marcos Hashimoto
    ( (55-11) 4504-2300 – x. 2713
    1
    Entrepreneurship Center
    * MarcosH@isp.edu.br

    www.ibmecsp.edu.br

    300, Quata st - Vila Olimpia - SP

     


    De: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] Em nome de Norris Krueger
    Enviada em: terça-feira, 10 de abril de 2007 11:44
    Para: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Assunto: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.

    What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    1) go to work for one
    2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    3) go into their family's business
    4) be intrapreneurial, even
    5) socially entrepreneurial
    etc.

    Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?

    As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?

    Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for life.

    Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social entrepreneurship? What else?

    Cheers!
    Norris

    On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:

    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether  or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au


           Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    >   Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    >   students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    >   some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    >   assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    >   certainly far less for all other 1st World
    >   countries. One need only look at the new business
    >   formations in European countries to know culture
    >   damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    >   business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    >   how-to start new ventures whether within an
    >   enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    >   Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    >   graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    >   thumping "here's how to start a business"
    >   entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    >   large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    >   measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    >   serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    >   lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    >   In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    >   Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    >   www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    >   (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    >   prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    >   enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    >   workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    >   faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    >   funding process. We believed all students should get
    >   entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    >   rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    >   why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    >   phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    >   and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    >   1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    >   hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    >   technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of
    >   operating or chief executive. These all under the
    >   umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    >   of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    >   "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    >   "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    >   "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    >   excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    >   Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    >   a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    >   "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    >   given group: "racism."]   The ~ 10% process the
    >   content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    >   confident they will understand what happens and
    >   actions are taking place when they get to the
    >   workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    >   into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    >   sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    >   students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    >   Jack Savidge
    >
    >   Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    >   jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    >   [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    >   Norris Krueger
    >   Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    >   To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >   Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    >   One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    >   on TV, he said...
    >
    >   "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    >   ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    >   management."
    >
    >   LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    >   perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    >   world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    >   hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    >   toll, I'd think.
    >
    >   (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    >   an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    >   On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    >   s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    >
    >   What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    >   I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    >   to efficiently run
    >   businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    >   up.  The models that we
    >   teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    >   and White (1981) have
    >   shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both
    >   large
    >   corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    >   firms, I completely
    >   identify with the argument made in the above
    >   paper.  It may well be that
    >   we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    >   distinct: entrepreneurship
    >   education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    >   focusing
    >   on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    >   doing so well, and with a
    >   choice in the latter of specialising towards
    >   corporate management or
    >   entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    >   with the
    >   entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    >   Request please share any such streaming being tried
    >   in your school.
    >
    >   Cheers
    >   Sanjay
    >
    >   Sanjay Bhowmick
    >   The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    >   **************************************
    >   This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    >   the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management.
    >
    >   Please do not post messages with attached files.
    >   Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    >   allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder
    >   "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    >   removal from the list.
    >
    >   You can manage your subscription options, including
    >   joining or leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    >   Ventures HO!
    >
    >   --
    >   Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    >   Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    >   (208) 440-3747
    >   skype: norris.krueger
    >   "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    >   -Cicero ************************************** This
    >   message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    >
    >   ************************************** This message
    >   is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!




    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!




    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 17.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-10-2007 23:42

    Bruce states well those who gain may greater benefits. Now,  the question is whether "how-to" training and/or "what is it like to work there?" – "what are the cultural and environmental traits of a chaotic start-up or just emerging enterprise?" – "what are the fears, concerns, and generic needs of entrepreneur customers that I can satisfy?"

     

    My previous note was to not suggest throwing out all that has been accomplished in our "Ship" curricula, but rather reshape it fit the real situations encountered by those involved with entrepreneurs. Lastly, our experience using this methodology has not deterred for a moment those who really want to start a new enterprise. Therefore, we claim adding value to entrepreneurial education.

     

    Regarding Per Davidson's observations, I was amazed to see in the U.S. Small Business Administration's  "The Small Business Economy for Data Year 2005 - A Report to The President"  www.sba.gov/advo/research/sb_econ2006.pdf on Page 13, the following:

                       Entrepreneurship and Education

    A review of recent research on the impact of general education on entrepreneurship

    suggests three generalizations, according to guest contributors Mark

    Weaver, Paul Dickson, and George Solomon. First, the evidence suggests a

    positive link between education and entrepreneurial performance. Second,

    when the forms of entrepreneurship examined are divided into "necessity entrepreneurship"

    and "opportunity entrepreneurship," the relationship between

    entrepreneurship and education becomes clearer. Third, the education-entrepreneurship

    link is not linear-the highest levels of entrepreneurship are linked

    to individuals with at least a bachelor's degree, but higher levels of education

    are not generally found to be positively linked to entrepreneurship. A review

    of research specific to entrepreneurship education suggests a link, although no

    definitive evidence, between such education and venture creation. The precursors

    of entrepreneurial activity can be important and measurable outcomes for

    entrepreneurship education, the researchers find.

     

    The above appearing in the Executive Summary is further explained on Page 124 of the report at the web site noted.

     

    If innovation is our driver to deliver what students need, then perhaps new entrepreneurial training is eminent before current offerings are deemed by others as irrelevant.

     

    Jack Savidge

    The von Liebig Center, UCSD

     

    Jsavidge@ucsd.edu

     

     

    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Norris Krueger
    Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:44 AM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

     

    Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.

    What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    1) go to work for one
    2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    3) go into their family's business
    4) be intrapreneurial, even
    5) socially entrepreneurial
    etc.

    Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?

    As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?

    Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for life.

    Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social entrepreneurship? What else?

    Cheers!
    Norris

    On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:

    Hi,

    Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure where he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not whether  or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.

    Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul Reynolds, have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting and/or running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is not quite the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more). For example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of Americans were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running an independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as predicted, lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal communication) indicate that participation increased in the US unitil 1998 and then has remained pretty stable.

    Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self selected group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some stage move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be well over 50%.

    Best Regards,

    Per Davidsson

    (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000, Where do they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources can be found there).




    Per Davidsson
    Professor in Entrepreneurship
    Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    Queensland University of Technology
    Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    4001 Queensland
    Australia
    Ph: +617 3138 2051
    Fax: +617 3138 1299
    email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au


           Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of accreditation


    ---- Original message ----
    >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >
    >   Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    >   students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    >   some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    >   assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    >   certainly far less for all other 1st World
    >   countries. One need only look at the new business
    >   formations in European countries to know culture
    >   damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    >   business of entrepreneurship.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    >   how-to start new ventures whether within an
    >   enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    >   Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    >   graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    >   thumping "here's how to start a business"
    >   entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    >   large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    >   measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    >   serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    >   lessons well enough.
    >
    >
    >
    >   In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    >   Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    >   www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    >   (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    >   prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    >   enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    >   workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    >   faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    >   funding process. We believed all students should get
    >   entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    >   rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    >   why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    >   phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    >   and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    >   1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    >   hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    >   technical manager and the 3rd  from the vantage of
    >   operating or chief executive. These all under the
    >   umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    >   of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    >   "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    >   "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    >   "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    >   excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    >   Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    >   a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    >   "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    >   given group: "racism."]   The ~ 10% process the
    >   content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    >   confident they will understand what happens and
    >   actions are taking place when they get to the
    >   workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    >   into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    >   sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    >
    >
    >
    >   Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    >   students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    >
    >
    >
    >   Jack Savidge
    >
    >   Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    >
    >   jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    >   [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    >   Norris Krueger
    >   Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    >   To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >   Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    >
    >
    >
    >   One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    >   on TV, he said...
    >
    >   "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    >
    >   ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    >   management."
    >
    >   LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    >   perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    >   world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    >   hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    >   toll, I'd think.
    >
    >   (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    >   an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    >
    >   On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    >   s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    >
    >   What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    >
    >   I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    >   to efficiently run
    >   businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    >   up.  The models that we
    >   teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    >   and White (1981) have
    >   shown it conclusively.  Having advised/funded both
    >   large
    >   corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    >   firms, I completely
    >   identify with the argument made in the above
    >   paper.  It may well be that
    >   we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    >   distinct: entrepreneurship
    >   education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    >   focusing
    >   on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    >   doing so well, and with a
    >   choice in the latter of specialising towards
    >   corporate management or
    >   entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    >   with the
    >   entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    >
    >   Request please share any such streaming being tried
    >   in your school.
    >
    >   Cheers
    >   Sanjay
    >
    >   Sanjay Bhowmick
    >   The University of Auckland Business School
    >
    >   **************************************
    >   This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    >   the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management.
    >
    >   Please do not post messages with attached files.
    >   Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    >   allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder
    >   "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    >   removal from the list.
    >
    >   You can manage your subscription options, including
    >   joining or leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    >   Ventures HO!
    >
    >   --
    >   Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    >   Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    >   (208) 440-3747
    >   skype: norris.krueger
    >   "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    >   -Cicero ************************************** This
    >   message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    >
    >   ************************************** This message
    >   is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    >   Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    >   Management. Please do not post messages with
    >   attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    >   messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    >   auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    >   lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    >   your subscription options, including joining or
    >   leaving the list here:
    >   http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    >   If you have questions or need help, please contact
    >   Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    **************************************
    This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.

    Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list.  The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list.

    You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1

    If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch  jbunch@benedictine.edu.

    Ventures HO!




    --
    Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    (208) 440-3747
    skype: norris.krueger
    "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!

    ************************************** This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management. Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the list. You can manage your subscription options, including joining or leaving the list here: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1 If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!


  • 18.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-11-2007 09:30
    Norris makes an important point regarding the fungibility of
    entrepreneurial skills.

    I think Ron Burt (in his 1992 book) defined an entrepreneur as someone
    who bridges structural holes. If we accept this or a similarly broad
    definition of an entrepreneur, then what we teach would be applicable in
    a variety of contexts - not just starting a business. Math is important
    to many people who are not mathematicians. Entrepreneurial skills are
    important to many people who do not start businesses.

    Perhaps the conceptualization of entrepreneurship as the creation of new
    ventures is misleading our field. It might make more sense to think of
    an entrepreneur as someone who exploits opportunities. If so, then our
    courses should be designed to fit this broader conceptualization of
    entrepreneurship, i.e., include more on creativity and networking and
    less on venture creation.

    -Ben Powell


    Quoting Norris Krueger <norris.krueger@GMAIL.COM>:

    > Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the
    > numbers
    > are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to self-employment,
    > the
    > numbers are very high over one's lifetime.
    >
    > What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if
    > students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    > 1) go to work for one
    > 2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    > 3) go into their family's business
    > 4) be intrapreneurial, even
    > 5) socially entrepreneurial
    > etc.
    >
    > Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set
    > of
    > knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not
    > one
    > starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we help
    > our
    > students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to seemingly
    > less-entrepreneurial settings?
    >
    > As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your
    > employees,
    > your suppliers, et al be people who understand entrepreneurship?
    >
    > Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start
    > businesses, to
    > me anyway, is less important than giving them important tools for
    > life.
    >
    > Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social
    > entrepreneurship? What else?
    >
    > Cheers!
    > Norris
    >
    > On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure
    > where
    > > he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not
    > > whether or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.
    > >
    > > Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul
    > Reynolds,
    > > have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting
    > and/or
    > > running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is
    > not quite
    > > the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more).
    > For
    > > example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of
    > Americans
    > > were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running
    > an
    > > independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as
    > predicted,
    > > lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal
    > > communication) indicate that participation increased in the US
    > unitil 1998
    > > and then has remained pretty stable.
    > >
    > > Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self
    > selected
    > > group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some
    > stage
    > > move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be
    > well over
    > > 50%.
    > >
    > > Best Regards,
    > >
    > > Per Davidsson
    > >
    > > (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000,
    > Where do
    > > they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent
    > entrepreneurs.
    > > Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources
    > can be
    > > found there).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Per Davidsson
    > > Professor in Entrepreneurship
    > > Brisbane Graduate School of Business
    > > Queensland University of Technology
    > > Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    > > 4001 Queensland
    > > Australia
    > > Ph: +617 3138 2051
    > > Fax: +617 3138 1299
    > > email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au
    > >
    > >
    > > Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of
    > accreditation
    > >
    > >
    > > ---- Original message ----
    > > >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    > > >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    > > >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    > > >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > > >
    > > > Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    > > > students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    > > > some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    > > > assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    > > > certainly far less for all other 1st World
    > > > countries. One need only look at the new business
    > > > formations in European countries to know culture
    > > > damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    > > > business of entrepreneurship.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    > > > how-to start new ventures whether within an
    > > > enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    > > > Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    > > > graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    > > > thumping "here's how to start a business"
    > > > entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    > > > large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    > > > measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    > > > serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    > > > lessons well enough.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    > > > Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    > > > www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    > > > (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    > > > prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    > > > enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    > > > workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    > > > faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    > > > funding process. We believed all students should get
    > > > entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    > > > rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    > > > why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    > > > phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    > > > and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    > > > 1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    > > > hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    > > > technical manager and the 3rd from the vantage of
    > > > operating or chief executive. These all under the
    > > > umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    > > > of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    > > > "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    > > > "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    > > > "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    > > > excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    > > > Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    > > > a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    > > > "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    > > > given group: "racism."] The ~ 10% process the
    > > > content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    > > > confident they will understand what happens and
    > > > actions are taking place when they get to the
    > > > workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    > > > into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    > > > sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    > > > students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Jack Savidge
    > > >
    > > > Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    > > >
    > > > jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    > > > [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    > > > Norris Krueger
    > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    > > > To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > > > Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    > > > on TV, he said...
    > > >
    > > > "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    > > >
    > > > ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    > > > management."
    > > >
    > > > LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    > > > perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    > > > world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    > > > hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    > > > toll, I'd think.
    > > >
    > > > (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    > > > an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    > > >
    > > > On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    > > > s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    > > >
    > > > I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    > > > to efficiently run
    > > > businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    > > > up. The models that we
    > > > teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    > > > and White (1981) have
    > > > shown it conclusively. Having advised/funded both
    > > > large
    > > > corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    > > > firms, I completely
    > > > identify with the argument made in the above
    > > > paper. It may well be that
    > > > we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    > > > distinct: entrepreneurship
    > > > education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    > > > focusing
    > > > on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    > > > doing so well, and with a
    > > > choice in the latter of specialising towards
    > > > corporate management or
    > > > entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    > > > with the
    > > > entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    > > >
    > > > Request please share any such streaming being tried
    > > > in your school.
    > > >
    > > > Cheers
    > > > Sanjay
    > > >
    > > > Sanjay Bhowmick
    > > > The University of Auckland Business School
    > > >
    > > > **************************************
    > > > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    > > > the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management.
    > > >
    > > > Please do not post messages with attached files.
    > > > Commercial messages or spammed messages are not
    > > > allowed on the list. The use of auto-responder
    > > > "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your
    > > > removal from the list.
    > > >
    > > > You can manage your subscription options, including
    > > > joining or leaving the list here:
    > > > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    > > >
    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    > > >
    > > > Ventures HO!
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    > > > Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    > > > (208) 440-3747
    > > > skype: norris.krueger
    > > > "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    > > > -Cicero ************************************** This
    > > > message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > > > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management. Please do not post messages with
    > > > attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    > > > messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > > > auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
    > > > lead to your removal from the list. You can manage
    > > > your subscription options, including joining or
    > > > leaving the list here:
    > > > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    > > >
    > > > ************************************** This message
    > > > is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > > > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management. Please do not post messages with
    > > > attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
    > > > messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > > > auto-responder "out-of-office" messages may also
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    > > > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=entrep&A=1
    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    > >
    > > **************************************
    > > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > Entrepreneurship
    > > Division of the Academy of Management.
    > >
    > > Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial
    > messages or
    > > spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > auto-responder
    > > "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the
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    > > If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch
    > > jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    > >
    > > Ventures HO!
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    > Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    > (208) 440-3747
    > skype: norris.krueger
    > "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero
    >
    > **************************************
    > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of Management.
    >
    > Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages
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    > If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch
    > jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    > Ventures HO!
    >


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    **************************************
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    Ventures HO!


  • 19.  training to take risk NOT

    Posted 04-12-2007 19:51
    Respectfully, Ben, you bring up a classic debate. Burt's definition of
    entrepreneurship mirrors Schumpeter's emphasis on innovation as a defining
    characteristic of entrepreneurship and the entrepreneur. In the 1949
    publication Change and the Entrepreneur, however, even Schumpeter conceded
    to fellow scholars Arthur Cole, Leland Jenks, and Thomas Cochran, that for
    research purposes at least, it is much better to focus on a broader
    definition of entrepreneurship as business creation. For my part as one who
    studies variations in entrepreneurship activity across social groups, I have
    to agree with the broader definition. Innovation is a subjective call.

    We see this fact in Charles Darwin's work on gender. He rationalized that
    women were less developed or less mature humans than men. For evidence, he
    noted not only physical features like lack of body hair, but also argued
    that only men were responsible for inventing tools and other social
    innovations and arrangements. Of course, he completely disregarded the
    innovations that had occurred within the domestic sphere and he neglected to
    consider the lack of political rights that women held up to that point in
    time. In others words, it did not occur to him that women have been
    responsible for and have contributed to many inventions that men have been
    credited for. The earliest example reported by the Smithsonian institute
    concerned the 18th century patent for cornmeal - invented by a woman under
    patent held by her husband because women did not have the right to hold
    patents. Women have been responsible for numerous other inventions that
    affect our daily lives - windshield wipers, colored signal flares,
    radio-control communication used for missiles and cell phone technology
    (yep, Heddy Lamarr - look it up), square bottom paper bags, even brassieres
    (which you have to admit men have benefited from, too). Not to mention the
    roles women have played in the production of textiles and clothing, food
    products and cooking styles, medical expertise and services, farm machinery
    and household furnishings, etc. And what about the inventions brought to us
    by indigenous people, immigrants, servants, and slaves? Do I have stories.

    In this sense, then, we really have to continue defining entrepreneurship in
    it's broadest sense. Otherwise, we make the mistake of discounting
    innovations that exist outside our sense of relevance. This is also
    important in the classroom. Who are our students? What are their areas of
    expertise? Is the problem really coming up with the idea or making it
    happen? I think good ideas are actually a dime a dozen. The hard part is
    getting anywhere with it. I agree that it is important to teach students
    about creativity, innovation, networking, etc. But for me the more
    important skills are critical thinking, reflexivity, and resource
    mobilization. Is this idea feasibile? Is it sellable? Is there a market?
    Who do I contact to get what kinds of help? How do I find a good
    manufacturer/vendor? How do I recruit the right employees? How do I
    identify a target market? How do I get the word out? How do I take the
    first step?

    I base my position, not just on my theoretical views, but also on my
    ancillary experience with a practicum offered to students at Kenan-Flagler
    Business School at UNC Chapel Hill. Professor Paul Bloom organized a
    practicuum course where MBA students are responsible for running a single
    fundraising event for a local non-profit - a 10k race. This practicuum, it
    turns, out is regularly cited as the best course taken by participating
    students during their MBA program. These students are largely from
    bureaucratic, middle management or lower type backgrounds. They generally
    have had no experience "mobilizing resources" or getting out into the
    community or marketplace. This experience for them is like running a
    business for a day. They plan it from beginning to end. They gather
    sponsorships (investors), target their market, prepare and distribute
    marketing materials, recruit volunteers and hire vendors. They interact with
    the non-profit board in the planning and execution of the event and they
    present a closing summary of the success of event in terms of financials,
    turn out, and lessons learned. I think it's about learning through
    experience how to mobilize those critical resources under the supervision
    and guidance of an experienced teacher. Students gain a chance to actually
    apply the tools they learn in business school. How useful is planning?
    What types of tools give us the best information? And so on.

    Thanks for the discussion, everyone! It's been great fun to follow.


    Amanda Elam, PhD. | Postdoctoral Fellow

    Brisbane Graduate School of Business | Queensland University of Technology |
    www.bgsb.qut.edu.au
    phone: 07 3138 1163 | fax: 07 3138 1299 | email: amanda.elam@qut.edu.au |
    CRICOS No. 00213J

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you
    didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
    from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    Discover. -- Mark Twain



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU]
    On Behalf Of bpowell@BAMA.UA.EDU
    Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:30 PM
    To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT

    Norris makes an important point regarding the fungibility of entrepreneurial
    skills.

    I think Ron Burt (in his 1992 book) defined an entrepreneur as someone who
    bridges structural holes. If we accept this or a similarly broad definition
    of an entrepreneur, then what we teach would be applicable in a variety of
    contexts - not just starting a business. Math is important to many people
    who are not mathematicians. Entrepreneurial skills are important to many
    people who do not start businesses.

    Perhaps the conceptualization of entrepreneurship as the creation of new
    ventures is misleading our field. It might make more sense to think of an
    entrepreneur as someone who exploits opportunities. If so, then our courses
    should be designed to fit this broader conceptualization of
    entrepreneurship, i.e., include more on creativity and networking and less
    on venture creation.

    -Ben Powell


    Quoting Norris Krueger <norris.krueger@GMAIL.COM>:

    > Even going back to Bruce Phillips' data (with Bruce Kirchhoff) - the
    > numbers are pretty surprising. If you broaden the arena to
    > self-employment, the numbers are very high over one's lifetime.
    >
    > What I thought the direction was moving toward is that even if
    > students/trainees do not start an independent business, they might:
    > 1) go to work for one
    > 2) being involved in one as advisor, service provider, etc.
    > 3) go into their family's business
    > 4) be intrapreneurial, even
    > 5) socially entrepreneurial
    > etc.
    >
    > Understanding how to manage (even lead) entrepreneurially is a set of
    > knowledge, skills and mindset that offers great value whether or not
    > one starts a new business. Perhaps we need to talking about how we
    > help our students/trainees to apply entrepreneurial abilities to
    > seemingly less-entrepreneurial settings?
    >
    > As an entrepreneur, wouldn't you like to see your banker, your
    > employees, your suppliers, et al be people who understand
    > entrepreneurship?
    >
    > Worrying about what percentage of our students actually start
    > businesses, to me anyway, is less important than giving them important
    > tools for life.
    >
    > Does that mean we need to teach more re intrapreneurship? Social
    > entrepreneurship? What else?
    >
    > Cheers!
    > Norris
    >
    > On 4/9/07, Per Davidsson <per.davidsson@qut.edu.au> wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > Just a little correction of Savidge's estimates, which I'm not sure
    > where
    > > he got. I have no opinion on his or others' programs and hence not
    > > whether or not whether they need change/deserve wider adopiton.
    > >
    > > Research, in paritcular the research programs intitiated by Paul
    > Reynolds,
    > > have established that entrepreneurship (interpreted as starting
    > and/or
    > > running an independent business, or at least trying to do so) is
    > not quite
    > > the exclusive minority phenomenon some believe it to be (any more).
    > For
    > > example, data from the second half of the 1990s suggest 37.5% of
    > Americans
    > > were at some point of their lives involved in starting or running
    > an
    > > independent business. With figures in the high 20s Sweden had, as
    > predicted,
    > > lower levels of participation. Recent research (Reynolds, personal
    > > communication) indicate that participation increased in the US
    > unitil 1998
    > > and then has remained pretty stable.
    > >
    > > Based on this it would seem reasonable to assume that in a self
    > selected
    > > group of entrepreneurship students the percentage that will at some
    > stage
    > > move on to trying to at least trying to start a business may be
    > well over
    > > 50%.
    > >
    > > Best Regards,
    > >
    > > Per Davidsson
    > >
    > > (the 1990s data was compiled in Delmar, F. & P. Davidsson, 2000,
    > Where do
    > > they come from? Prevalence and characteristics of nascent
    > entrepreneurs.
    > > Entrepreneurship & Regional Development, 12, 1-23; original sources
    > can be
    > > found there).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Per Davidsson
    > > Professor in Entrepreneurship
    > > Brisbane Graduate School of Business Queensland University of
    > > Technology Gardens Point Campus, Brisbane
    > > 4001 Queensland
    > > Australia
    > > Ph: +617 3138 2051
    > > Fax: +617 3138 1299
    > > email: per.davidsson@qut.edu.au
    > >
    > >
    > > Australia's first MBA with the 'triple crown' of
    > accreditation
    > >
    > >
    > > ---- Original message ----
    > > >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:05:01 -0700
    > > >From: Jack Savidge <jsavidge@PACBELL.NET>
    > > >Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    > > >To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > > >
    > > > Let's start with the assumption that of the 100%
    > > > students finishing entrepreneurship courses, at best
    > > > some 10-15% will ever start a business. This
    > > > assumption probably holds for the United States, but
    > > > certainly far less for all other 1st World
    > > > countries. One need only look at the new business
    > > > formations in European countries to know culture
    > > > damping effects are personal barriers to the risky
    > > > business of entrepreneurship.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Traditionally, "entrepreneurship" education is about
    > > > how-to start new ventures whether within an
    > > > enterprise or the formation and growth of a new one.
    > > > Perhaps excellent for the precious few who will
    > > > graduate and go on to do that. However, drum
    > > > thumping "here's how to start a business"
    > > > entrepreneurship curricula leaves behind a very
    > > > large student fraction to wonder whether they do not
    > > > measure up, are innately risk averse, are failing to
    > > > serve a patriotic cause or just did not learn the
    > > > lessons well enough.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > In 2000, the formation of the von Liebig Center for
    > > > Entrepreneurism and Technology Advancement -
    > > > www.vonliebig.ucsd.edu - rested on two initiatives:
    > > > (1) an adaption of traditional entrepreneurship to
    > > > prepare engineering graduates to more efficiently
    > > > enter the chaotic smaller business technology
    > > > workplace environment, and (2) a value-adding
    > > > faculty idea mentoring and $2.5 million on-campus
    > > > funding process. We believed all students should get
    > > > entrepreneurship content but through curricula
    > > > rearranged to not teach students "how" but rather
    > > > why, who, when, where, what happens during the work
    > > > phases they encounter. UCSD engaged Drs. Karl Vesper
    > > > and William Paulin to develop three courses - the
    > > > 1st designed around the perspectives of the newly
    > > > hired technician, the 2nd through the eyes of the
    > > > technical manager and the 3rd from the vantage of
    > > > operating or chief executive. These all under the
    > > > umbrella of "entrepreneurISM." [Webster's definition
    > > > of "ISM": [SUFFIX :1. Action; process; practice:
    > > > "terrorism." 2. Characteristic behavior or quality:
    > > > "heroism." 3. a. State; condition; quality:
    > > > "pauperism." b. State or condition resulting from an
    > > > excess of something specified: "strychninism." 4.
    > > > Distinctive or characteristic trait: "Latinism." 5.
    > > > a. Doctrine; theory; system of principles:
    > > > "pacifism." b. An attitude of prejudice against a
    > > > given group: "racism."] The ~ 10% process the
    > > > content to aide starting a venture, and the 90%
    > > > confident they will understand what happens and
    > > > actions are taking place when they get to the
    > > > workplace. Results to-date indicate swift adaption
    > > > into new jobs, quicker advancement, more creativity
    > > > sooner, and employers who seek our graduates.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Is it now time to serve all, instead of the few,
    > > > students seeking new enterprise knowledge?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Jack Savidge
    > > >
    > > > Deputy Director, von Liebig Center
    > > >
    > > > jsavidge@ucsd.edu
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > From: Entrepreneurship Division Listserv
    > > > [mailto:ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of
    > > > Norris Krueger
    > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:43 AM
    > > > To: ENTREP@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > > > Subject: Re: [ENTREP] training to take risk NOT
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > One of the few times my late mentor, Al Shapero, was
    > > > on TV, he said...
    > > >
    > > > "There are only 5 business schools in the US...
    > > >
    > > > ...the rest are academies for corporate middle
    > > > management."
    > > >
    > > > LOL, but... The market for b-school students is
    > > > perceived (somewhat accurately) as the corporate
    > > > world. If (larger) local and national employers are
    > > > hiring 95%+ of our MBA students, that will take its
    > > > toll, I'd think.
    > > >
    > > > (BTW, at the recent NCIIA conference, Tom Bryant had
    > > > an intriguing idea about a new market for MBAs.... )
    > > >
    > > > On 4/5/07, Sanjay Bhowmick <
    > > > s.bhowmick@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > What's causing the dampening effect among the MBAs?
    > > >
    > > > I believe that in the MBA we are teaching students
    > > > to efficiently run
    > > > businesses -- "administration" as against setting
    > > > up. The models that we
    > > > teach really apply to larger businesses, and Welsh
    > > > and White (1981) have
    > > > shown it conclusively. Having advised/funded both
    > > > large
    > > > corporates/projects as well as entrepreneurial
    > > > firms, I completely
    > > > identify with the argument made in the above
    > > > paper. It may well be that
    > > > we should (continue to) keep the two programs
    > > > distinct: entrepreneurship
    > > > education and MBA, with the choice in the former of
    > > > focusing
    > > > on "internship" as Tim Stearns and Tom Burns are
    > > > doing so well, and with a
    > > > choice in the latter of specialising towards
    > > > corporate management or
    > > > entrepreneurship (when MBA students can be streamed
    > > > with the
    > > > entrepreneurship cohort for common courses).
    > > >
    > > > Request please share any such streaming being tried
    > > > in your school.
    > > >
    > > > Cheers
    > > > Sanjay
    > > >
    > > > Sanjay Bhowmick
    > > > The University of Auckland Business School
    > > >
    > > > **************************************
    > > > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by
    > > > the Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management.
    > > >
    > > > Please do not post messages with attached files.
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    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    > > >
    > > > Ventures HO!
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    > > > Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    > > > (208) 440-3747
    > > > skype: norris.krueger
    > > > "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
    > > > -Cicero ************************************** This
    > > > message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > > > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management. Please do not post messages with
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    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    > > >
    > > > ************************************** This message
    > > > is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > > > Entrepreneurship Division of the Academy of
    > > > Management. Please do not post messages with
    > > > attached files. Commercial messages or spammed
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    > > > If you have questions or need help, please contact
    > > > Dr. John Bunch jbunch@benedictine.edu. Ventures HO!
    > >
    > > **************************************
    > > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the
    > Entrepreneurship
    > > Division of the Academy of Management.
    > >
    > > Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial
    > messages or
    > > spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
    > auto-responder
    > > "out-of-office" messages may also lead to your removal from the
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    > > If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch
    > > jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    > >
    > > Ventures HO!
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Norris Krueger, Jr., Ph.D.
    > Teams / Entrepreneurship Northwest
    > (208) 440-3747
    > skype: norris.krueger
    > "I criticize by creation, not by finding fault" -Cicero
    >
    > **************************************
    > This message is from ENTREP which is sponsored by the Entrepreneurship
    > Division of the Academy of Management.
    >
    > Please do not post messages with attached files. Commercial messages
    > or spammed messages are not allowed on the list. The use of
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    > If you have questions or need help, please contact Dr. John Bunch
    > jbunch@benedictine.edu.
    >
    > Ventures HO!
    >


    --

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    Ventures HO!

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